The Amazing Love Story Behind Auntie Anne's Pretzels

We can honestly say, of all the podcasts we've ever done, this one BY FAR takes the cake (or pretzel, if you prefer!). If you've ever eaten an Auntie Anne's pretzel you know how incredibly delicious they are. But what you might not know is the incredible love story that lead to its inception.

The story you're about to hear is a story of passion, loss, betrayal, forgiveness, and transformation that will leave you on the edge of your seat! You're going to hear how God's miraculous power working in a marriage that was poised to fail ushered in the events that lead to the greatest pretzel franchise the world has ever known.

Please, grab your spouse and favorite beverage and settle in for a story that's sure to leave an impression on you for the rest of your life.

Enjoy!

P.S. If you haven't taken our free 5-Day Marriage Challenge, join us HERE.

P.S.S. Auntie Anne's new cookbook "Come To The Table" is available HERE. 

Transcript

All right. So today, Tori and I have a real treat for you guys. We have Anne and Jonas Byler on our podcast, and you guys may not know their names right off hand, but have you ever eaten an Auntie Ann's pretzel? And if you haven't, then what are you even doing? Yeah, your head's buried in the sand. Of course you've eaten an Auntie Ann's pretzel, and we have Anne herself and her husband, her counterpart, her business partner here with us.

And, uh, Tori and I have an opportunity to interview them. And, and so here's what's fun about Anne and Jonas. You know, uh, a lot of people don't realize this, but Anne did not start Auntie Ann's pretzels until she was 40 years old. And so Anne and I have been on a traveling speaker circuit. You guys have probably seen it all on our social media, uh, life search.

If you haven't heard about it, go to life search.com and you'll get a chance to see when we're coming to a city near you. But you can go to life search and, and see that Anne is on that circuit along with a lot of other folks. But, um, Anne and I have a special relationship because I, I have interviewed Anne on stage in probably, what do you say, Ann?

14 different cities. Yeah. At least, at least 14 different cities. And we've had so much fun up there. And then I thought, you know what? Their marriage story is so powerful that we need to have them on our podcast, Tori and I. Yeah. And um, and here's what I love about the story. So we know Anne and Jonas started Auntie Ann's when, uh, auntie Ann, when Ann was 40 years old.

But here's the crazy thing, they had a lot of marriage before that. They were married a long time for over 20 years. You were married for over 20 years before you started the business, right? Absolutely. Yes, that's right. Yes. Okay. Some things happened before that. That we want to get into because their marriage and their story is a, is a story of redemption and how awesome God is and, and a story of transformation, the likes of which you probably have didn't ever think about right with, with Auntie Ants, and here's what I love.

God gave Jonas. The secret ingredient that made Auntie Ann's pretzel what it is. It's incredible. It's such an incredible story. I love it. Jason and I were, we were on our way home from a vacation, I think it was like two years ago, and somebody sent us a business podcast with you sharing your story, your business story.

But all that Jason and I heard was a marriage story. It, you shared so beautifully what God did in your life and in your marriage, and we walked away. So en encouraged and I've thought about it you guys so many times and we're so excited that you actually get to be on our podcast and be here today. And then of course, Ann, I'm so excited too.

Um, at the end of this, we always share a recipe. And today I'm just gonna point them to your beautiful book that you just came out with. I absolutely love it. Is It Come To the Table, is the name of your new cookbook? Oh my goodness. It is full of the most amazing, beautiful recipes. Um, so we'll share that at the end.

And, and gave us that cookbook before it was actually released. And so our daughter Lundy to it, I think was the first person that made one of your recipes outta your book. She did that. She was so inspired. She was leaping through the, the recipe book and the next morning she was up early making one of your recipes.

Thank you guys for it on your, your show today. It what an honor. What an honor. Yes so typically we share a song, um, before we get going, but I just wanna dive right into your story. Okay. So let's, let's go back. Okay.

Both of you were raised Amish, correct? That's right. So take us back into your story and, and take us into modern day. Joan just, I both, uh, were raised old order Amish, meaning horse and buggy Amish. Okay. Wow. That was our background. Jonas was horse and buggy Amish until he turned 16. He didn't want a horse and buggy and then he got a car.

So that was when he went into the real world. I wanna Wow. Car, not horse. Oh, that, that you wanted horsepower, not horse and buggy. Yeah, and uh, my dad was old Order Amish. My parents were until they passed away. So I'm very familiar with the old Order Amish way. Wow. For me, my mom and dad were older, the, in that culture as well, until I turned about three.

They went to the black car Amish. So I was up a notch from Jonas. Ooh. But, uh, 'cause we had a car and electricity buggies for me after I was three. So, and here we are today. Uh, wow. It's amazing. It's been an amazing journey for us. And you guys married, uh, you Anne, I I know your story. You were 19 when you guys got married.

That's right. I was 19. Jonas was 21. We were just babies. But you know what, uh, growing up in the Amish culture, you're, you're just ready to be married and have family. It, it's still today. They still marry, you know, quite young. And, um, we have no regrets about that. And it's, it's a great part of our story because we started out so well.

I mean, we loved each other and loved God and our career, our dream would've been simply to have a family and, uh, And next month we'll be married 55 years. It's hard for me to say that because you mentioned something at the very beginning. The song goes back pretty far and I'm like, yeah, you're right.

We're, we're on the older side of marriage. We love it. We're glad. Now what were, what were you guys doing when you got married? Okay, so you were 19 June. Jonas, you were 21. Jonas, what were you doing for, for a living? For work, I was a auto mechanic. Nice. When? When I turned 17, I bought my own car. Where did you buy your car?

Without a junkyard. Of course. That's right. I fixed it up and all my friends liked the way I did it, so I started working on their cars and then me and my brother started the automotive business. I, he did mostly the mechanical work. I did mostly the body and painting. Oh, that's awesome. So you were an entrepreneur.

Many years later, he got so good at body work and cars that he was fixing, uh, here in, uh, Austin, Texas. He was doing high-end cars, Jaguars, uh, Mercedes, the, the, you know, the best cars in the industry. He, he really got very good at what he was doing. Wow. That's great. And what were you doing? He, I was, uh, I was a waitress when we started dating.

I was a waitress at a little truck stop in, uh, right close to our farm in Christiana, Pennsylvania. I was, uh, 14 years old when I started to work there. And, uh, worked there for a number of years. And, uh, that was my, my, my job. I loved waitressing. It really kinda set me up to interact with people of the world.

'cause we all isolated, uh, in our own little world, but, The truck stop experience for me was like an eyeopener. Let me tell you. You know, the waitresses smoke cigarettes and they were cussing and they were flirting. And I'm like this little Amish girl. I'm like, oh my goodness, what is this world all about?

But that's where I started, you know, really interacting with, with the outside world. Wow. I remember hearing in, in the podcast that we listened to that you worked really hard as a child, that you, your responsibilities were, um, in the basement to cook. I think it was 60 to 80 pies. That's insane. That is incredible.

How old were you when you started doing that? I was, uh, probably 11 and 12 maybe. Uh, I mean, I did that for about two years. And, uh, when I think about that as well, it's, it is incredible because I did it all by myself. My mom went to a market on Thursday night. It was the only time that mom was not at home.

And I remember the feeling of, I can still feel it even as I'm starting to tell this story, the feeling of being alone and almost abandoned because mom was always there and she let a, uh, would write down a list for me to, when I got back from school that afternoon, every afternoon Thursdays. And, uh, I'd go down that list and I'd walk down to that basement and cry my way down the steps and make my pies and cakes and come back up and go to bed that night.

And, uh, I don't, I don't know, it just seemed like, um, at the time it was just the thing to do because as, as Amish kids are taught, honor your mom and dad, you know, obey them, help on the farm, help out whenever you can. So it was a normal, Hmm. Normal thing I would say for our culture at that time. Even though I look back at that, I'm like, wow.

And you know, for years I've said that story. I've told that story, and I asked my siblings some time ago, you know, is it true that I actually baked in the basement alone or did y'all help me? There are eight of us kids. They're like, no, I didn't help you. No, no. So I did it alone. And, uh, that was like baking pies and pi crusts and everything from scratch.

So it wasn't like I'd get a box off the shelf and make some cakes or, you know, I know it's, it was a big chore. It was a massive in my, in my heart and mind as a, as a 12 year old kid, you know. But looking back, it even seems like impossible. But, but that's what we did, you know? And it taught me discipline and perseverance.

It really did. And see, I love that because knowing your story and having interviewed you 14, 15 times or however long on in cities all over the country, what I know is that doing that all by yourself kind of gave you a little bit of an abandonment trigger, right? And you could very easily have pointed back to a childhood wound that you had when you were 12, 13, or 14, where you felt abandoned and then lived as a victim the rest of your life.

But what I know about you is you turned that around and you used that as, uh, essentially the genesis to create anti Ann's pretzels, the largest growing pretzel franchise in the world. And, uh, and so you didn't, you didn't play the victim card. Can you speak to that before we jump, jump into the rest of your story?

Well, you know, as you're saying that I'm reminded, you know, mom, mom chose me to bake, you know, and that's just, that's just what my role was. I was in the kitchen all the time with her, so it was a natural for me to do the baking in the. In the basement. But then on the other hand, you mentioned that it kind of set me up to be anti Anne.

Like, God called me to be Auntie Anne once again. Um, it's kind of like something I was called out of and, uh, you know, you don't understand God's ways and why he chooses people for certain things. I have no idea. But yeah, he really set me up all along the way to be, uh, become Auntie Anne and own a company.

And the abandonment part of my childhood story. Um, you know, even in the business world, I felt some of that as well. I, I felt misunderstood. I felt like, why, why me? You know, why didn't God call somebody else? Or even though my family at that time, early on at Auntie Ann's, they came and helped us, my family and also Jonas's family.

Many of most of them were involved in the company at some point. But initially it was me and Jonas and I'm, I'm, it did take me back to my basement. They like, Why, why? But you know, you know God, God has a plan and a purpose for every single one. If we can just follow the path and don't get victimized by, by the hurt and the pain along the way, because we will have that.

Is there something practical you could say to a listener right now? Because I know that so many people do have triggers from the past, childhood wounds. Something happened from somebody, somebody said something, somebody did something to them when they were younger, and they're having a real hard time getting past it, and it's affecting their marriage now.

What would you say to that person? I'm just a very simple line. Do you have something to say to that? I just wanna say one line and then I want you to speak to that. But it is simply tell somebody about your wounds and just talk about it to someone that you can get, because you're not meant to carry it alone and you're not meant to carry those wounds for a lifetime.

Uh, or wounds are meant to be shared. Hun, do you have something to say about that? And the reason you wanna do that is to help you make peace with your past. Enjoy the present and look forward to what God has for you in the future. Mm-hmm. That's the reason it's important to make peace with your past.

Mm-hmm. Wow. That, that's deep. And I, and I wanna say this because I think I didn't do this properly at the beginning. Jonas is a professional counselor. Um, and you'll see why, uh, is professional counselor the right, uh, title pastoral counselor? Pastor Pastoral Pastoral counselor. Pastor, that's right. Okay, got it.

Got it. Pastoral counselor and uh, and Tori and I actually had Auntie Ann and Jonas counsel us. Mm-hmm. Before we called them, we were working through a little bit of a problem and we're like, who could we call? And we're like, we're going with the Byers. And so he was awesome. And I remember Jonas, Jonas had said a couple things that were so powerful.

Obviously Anne, you always do. But Jonas, you said a couple things that were so powerful and the brevity of just the few words that you said. And you said it. And I remember looking over Tori and she started bawling and it was like, wow, this guy really knows this stuff. So I say that to say to the listener, what Jonas just said is strong.

Make peace with your past. If you don't make peace with your past, it's gonna ruin your present and it's gonna ruin your marriage. And it almost ruined our marriage. I mean, for me, as we get into our story, you know, um, my past just almost buried me. Yes. It almost buried me literally. So, yeah, you're right.

Okay, so Ann, you're working at a truck stop. Jonas, you're, uh, working as a mechanic. You guys are 19 and 21. You got married and it was marital bliss for the next decade, right? Six, seven years. Seven seven years. Talk to us. Tell, go ahead. Take us into the story. Well, so, so we were living our dream. You know, our dream wasn't very large, but it was a typical Amish culture, Mennonite Dream, have a family.

And, uh, so we were very involved in a church at that time that was just, we were youth pastors to about 200 young people. And honestly, uh, I think we both kind of felt like we had arrived spiritually. I mean, we would've gone to the mission field to Africa if God would've said so. You know, we were just in this very vibrant church, and it was charismatic church at that time.

We'd gone from Amish to Amish Mennonite, uh, to a, a charismatic church, which was a huge jump. Uh, but as we, uh, it, it just loved it. It's there though, Jason Joy, that we really. Dug into a relationship with Jesus Christ. And that's truly both had accepted Christ in our traditional churches, but, um, but it was, uh, but, but the, the real, um, relationship with Christ happened in our early married life.

And so we're, we're good to go. You know, uh, I believe that that life is good, you know, and God is harsh. If I keep all of the 10 Commandments and really be a good wife and a good mom and go to church and do all the right things, then God was gonna bless us as a couple, and, you know, life would be good. But wow.

What I know today, after seven, over seven decades of experiences, life's experiences, what we both know today, and I'm not confused about this at all. What I know is life is hard. God is good. No matter what happens to us, he is still good and we are not confused about that. Wow. So that's a solid base of truth, and that gives us stability and it gives us peace when things go wrong.

And so wanting to be a good girl, you know, kind of just after seven years of marriage, uh, we experienced tragedy and trauma that took me into a completely other world that I knew nothing about. Do you wanna speak to that dear? Uh, you're good. Okay. That was good. I love that. I love that. I love, he's kidding.

I love, I'm sorry. I was gonna say, I, I just love that that's such a powerful statement that you said, Anne, that your theology was, that life is good and God is harsh, but now your theology is that God is good. Life is hard, but God is good. Wow. That that is real. I want, I wanted to repeat that because that's so powerful and I know that that's a huge part of the transformation in your life was when that switch came on.

Absolutely. And I think there's many people in the body of Christ and around the world, whether you're a believer or not, uh, you know, we, we just kind of think life should be good, you know? Right. And something bad happens to us, and God is bad. We, we blame him. We spend our life blaming him for things that he had nothing to do with.

You know, it's, it's about what do you say about choice, hun? Um, that, that dictate our life. There are 4, 4, 4 things that dictate the path your life will take. Good choice, bad choice, consequence, and accident. Mm mm And you know, we made good choices in the early years of our marriage, but along came an accident, which turned our world upside down.

So the thing, that thing that dictates your life or the path your life takes is good choice, bad choice, consequence, and accident. Wow, that's so good. And, and for you guys, bud can weave in and out of that as he pleases or as an individual lets him. But that's the path. That's what dictates the path your life takes.

And it's so true when he says that, I can just see our lives like exactly, you know, uh, good choice. Uh, we made many good choices. Uh, accident happened and out of that accident, uh, it happened. Uh, our 19 month old daughter, we had two girls at the time, four and 19 months old and four years old. The oldest one 19 month old, the youngest one.

And um, so Angela was taking a walk to my, our, to my mother's house on a beautiful fall morning. And she did it, uh, very often, almost every day. 'cause we lived in the country and we lived right next to them. So it was a very safe environment. But my sister was working for my dad, and she was, and she was going to your mom's house for second breakfast, right?

Because you did two breakfasts in the Amish community. That's right. She leave to eat and she was always on the go, always going. She had girly blonde hair and blue eyes and, and man, it was hard to keep up with her. She was just going. And that particular morning, as she left the house that day, I stood at our front door and I watched her go to mom's and I'm, and I hadn't even changed her diaper or her PJ's, uh, but it was an unusual morning.

We had had company that night. I watched her walk across our yard and I kept thinking, should I call her back and change her or do I call mom and tell her she's on her way up or what, you know? 'cause I had, my kitchen was a mess. We'd had breakfast with friends and I decided, you know, I watched her go.

Never said goodbye to her, never called her back, and stood there at the door and turned around to call my mom. I, my hand was on the phone, but call her. And when I did, I heard this horrible, this screaming this, this, it was, I mean, chill bone, chilling, like the up and down my spine. And I knew immediately that Angie was gone.

Wow. Something from my heart. You know, the mother of heart in us, we're very in tune with our children. Whether they're 50 or five, it doesn't matter. We're in tune with our children. That's a God-given gift that we have. And, uh, so in that moment, I knew that she was gone. That just, I knew it. And so I ran to the door, and as I ran to the front door, my dad was running toward me with Angie in his arms and just wailing.

I believe she's dead. I believe she's dead. Well, wow. So that was many years ago. But, you know, trauma and tragedy changes us. We, we don't always understand that. I didn't understand that, did we? We, oh yeah. We had no clue that this is gonna change our lives. Can I stop you for a second? Uh, how did she die?

Can you tell, tell a listener how she died? My sister was driving a Bobcat a, a farm, um, vehicle and, uh, loading and unloading sand for my dad that morning. And she didn't, she always, she would wait for Angie and watch for her because she would go up there all the time and she would scoop her up and put her on her seat and they'd, they'd do this together.

But that particular morning, she was later than usual Phi, looked around, didn't see her, and, but she happened to be standing right behind the, the vehicle of the bobcat and, um, she drove over her accidentally and she was killed instantly. Yeah. Wow. So, so, so trauma. It's a life. It, it can be a lifelong change.

And I mean, even as I think about it right now, I think about, you know, our loss, the, the loss of Angie and then the two of us separated, uh, emotionally and physically. There was nothing between us After a time. Because this was seven years into your marriage, correct? That's correct. That's correct. Okay. And, and my sister was traumatized, extremely traumatized, of course.

And I wanted to be strong for her. So we all went inward, inward, inward, just like isolated. Oh, but listen. Oh no. But we're still living our lives, you know, as if nothing happened. We go to church, my sisters, I, we signed together in a trio this Sunday after Angela was killed. Wow. I, I know some of our story just ridiculous.

Like, why? But yeah, everybody handles trauma and tragedy and I guess the best way they can. I don't know. Yeah. It was, and terrible time. And you didn't know what to do. So, and, and as everybody's holding in all those emotions, which typically people do, I mean, you're crying at the funeral, I'm sure you know, you got some crime, but processing through emotions.

And, and making peace, as Jonas had said earlier, uh, you guys weren't doing that. Um, but Ann, you decided to go visit your pastor to get some advice. Start there. I mean, who do you, who do you go see? You know, of course, four months. Uh, Jonas and I could no longer talk. You know, we weren't mad at each other. We just didn't, we didn't know how to connect anymore.

And so we lost each other in this process. And, uh, I went see my pastor because I knew that he, we thought he was a good man and he, we'd known it for five years or six years or so. And, uh, I went to see him and poured out my heart to him. And during that time, he told me then that Jonas would never be able to meet my needs again.

He did tell me that. Wow. And I was like, confused about that. Like, oh man. Already I felt like I'm like separating from him. He was my best friend and now he's telling me, pastor is telling me that Jonas would never be able to meet all my needs, but that he might be able to, well, before I left, any, uh, took advantage of me physically.

Hmm. Uh, I didn't, I was pretty, I was very ignorant. Very naive. 'cause I, I didn't understand why he would do that and like, kind of what happened, like what did I do that made him do that? So I walk out of his office completely confused. Angie's death took me into deep grief, but what he did to me that morning, uh, took me into grief and despair of life.

Like, I didn't, I didn't know what to do and I decided I made a choice that day that I would never tell anyone what he did. I would never tell anyone what he did. Why would I, how could I, so there's people on your show, listeners I know. That know exactly what I'm talking about because abuse, um, of spiritual power, sexual abuse, all kinds of abuse.

We're living in a world that is rampant. It's wild out there. And I wanna encourage your listeners, you know, when something bad happens to you, you can stop it right there by telling someone, immediately. Tell someone. And, but I kept it a secret. And not one secret. One secret, one choice that I made took me into the dark world of sexual abuse for almost seven years with my past life.

Wow. And, and can I interrupt you for one sec? Can I interrupt you for one second? Because this, uh, and I, I, I can't wait till we get to the how the Lord redeemed it and how the Lord used Jonas. But I wanna pause for a second. So you talked about the secret before you got to the Secret. I do want to just caution our listeners on something that can happen to all of us, but it can really happen a lot to women that you gotta understand that when you open yourself up emotionally and you allow yourself to experience something emotional and, and kind of bear your soul to another person, I.

You're connected to that other person. It doesn't always manifest itself sexually, but you do connect. And so I've, Tori and I have, we did a podcast called Affair Proofing Your Marriage, and we talked about how any relationship that you've got with the opposite sex has to run through your spouse. There is no emotional connections that you're having with the opposite sex.

Even a pastor, and God forbid, you know, someone like you going, you're vulnerable, you're in a vulnerable position, you're a woman. You're thinking that's the last thing that would ever cross your mind. And then a man abuses his power, takes advantage of the situation, and then you end up in the spot where, where you had, you know, a, a connection that was, that was against what God would have for you.

And so, I just wanna warn our listeners in your relationships and just gave us a great example of what not to do. Yeah. And now the Lord has redeemed it. Jonas, go ahead. I, I Amen to that. You know, and our counselor taught us later, much later, you know, that Satan builds his strongholds in the secrets of our lives and reinforces them by silence.

And then when we silence, we break the strongholds. But, uh, that's hard to do when you're in that, the way she was. You know, she did not understand at the time that I need to tell somebody in order to break free. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I had no idea. That is amazing what you just said. I told you guys the brevity of what Jonas says is amazing.

You just talked about the secret to getting out of strongholds. Like the key to getting out of strongholds is, is, is first revealing that secret, like not keeping the secret right. And go, go through those three things again real quick. The three S's, right? And be says, strongholds in the secrets of our lives.

Right? Then he reinforces them by silence. Hmm. When we break the silence, we break the strongholds. That's really James five 16. When you think, confess your fault one to another, why? So you can experience freedom or healing. Hmm. Yeah. That's good. So, so during all this time, this almost seven years, we, I didn't tell him he had no idea.

I mean, there may have been some times he says, oh, he thought there was something wrong. But, you know, I was ing the death of our daughter. So, you know, you're trying to be, I'm trying to be, get rid of this evil, this secret that, I mean, I just felt like there was no other way to live, but to keep this secret.

'cause I didn't wanna hurt. I mean, how silly. I didn't wanna hurt him. You know? I knew if I told him the secret that I'm gonna hurt him too. Wow. Okay. So, and I, you know, I went through deliverance, I prayed, I did all these things. But what Jonas just said is, you know, is absolute the power. The power of setting yourself free.

Like Proverbs six, five says, free yourself. You do the work like the gazelle from the hand of the hunter and like the bird from the snare of the Fowler. You do the hard work. It's a struggle, but set yourself free. We're free in Christ. But when Satan, you know, comes on in and he builds this stronghold in us, you know, man, it's just tells somebody free yourself.

That's how it works. And that's, that's become my life. Thank God for a husband that loved me through it all. Well, yeah, to her credit, I watched her do the hard work. There's no shortcuts when you've been hurt like that. There's no shortcuts. You need to do the hard work. And I've watched her do the hard work and it's paid off.

It took years. Yes. That's what a lot of believers don't understand. Can't, God just touch me and put me through this. But for, maybe that works for some people, but for others it's a process. It's a journey. If, uh, if you've been hurt by life, it's going to be a journey to get through it. Wow. And, and this hard work started for you and through confession.

Absolutely. This was se seven years after the, after it had happened. So you were married seven years, then it happened, you know, and then seven years later, so now you're 14 years into marriage, you're weighing 80 some pounds, 80 pounds, 90 pounds. Wow. Take us from there. Wearing zero jeans. Wearing what? I'm sorry.

Zero jeans. Zero jeans. Wow. Well, you know, yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you, it's amazing that we're together. God has truly done a work of grace in both of our lives. And Jonah says that's why we're still one, because So what did take, take us through what, what, what happened there 14 years in so of, of your marriage, and now it was time to confess to him.

How did you receive that conviction? And then get the, the unction to just go do it. Yeah. I prayed for nearly seven years that God would deliver me out. 'cause I believed that he would, you know? Mm-hmm. But, you know, my seven years of praying didn't do for me. I believe it. Prayer don't, don't, don't mistake that.

Yeah. Certainly it did not do for me what one powerful, a choice that I made to make a confession to Jonas. Wow. Comment there. Yeah. And, and so I'm on my knees and, uh, you know, asking, begging him to freeze. Please deliver me from this man. And it's just like he put it in my heart, just go tell Jonas your secret.

I'm like, that is not an option because if I tell Jonas he will divorce me. Right. Uh, that morning though, I, I get my little blue pickup truck in Troop Texas is where we lived at the time. And, uh, man, my palm is sweaty, my heart racing and everything inside of me screaming. You know, Satan telling me, you can't tell Jonas, you cannot tell him 'cause he is gonna leave you.

You know, he is. And then you're not gonna have your family. And I mean, I was bawling my eyes out. I just couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't understand why I would have to tell him. But, um, but now I had nothing to give except one very short, very hard, uh, confession, short to the 0.2 sentence confession. And I didn't even let him respond because the look in his eyes let me know that.

Okay? Oh my goodness. Wow. He, he is gonna divorce me and I walked away. So what did you say? I said to him, hun, you heard about by now the church was beginning to fall apart. Mm-hmm. And uh, there was rumors swirling around. So I said, so hun, you heard about the women? I. Taylor, the, the pastor and the women involved in church, and he shook, said, yeah.

And I said, well, I'm one of those women and I'm, I'm a sorry person, and I'm sorry. That's all I said. Correct. Jonas, what did you feel at that moment? Well, it, uh, that part's hard to explain. Uh, got it. I knew when I seen her coming, she just said she was scared, bawling. So, you know, I, I said to myself, oh, my what now?

So you get these flashbacks from previous things. Sure. And then she said that, turned around and walked off. I, I didn't know what to do. I, I, you know, at that point, my, my spirituality, masculinity, self-esteem, uh, all left and just left. So I, I, I stood there, watched her go. And turned into the same shell that she was.

Yeah. Wow. Because what do you do with that kinda information? I mean, I always knew something was wrong in our marriage, but I kept blaming it on the death of our daughter, thinking she was grieving. And I really pushed her a couple times in conversation just saying, what's going on? Something's not right.

And of course, he was scared to tell me and, uh, you want to take it from there? No. Tell him what you did then. Well, that evening I called a pastor, uh, counselor that had been in our church the weekend before doing marriage enrichment things. And that's the only person I knew could think of to call. And, uh, I told him what's going on?

And he said, yes. I picked up on all that when I was at your church. And he knew that there was a number of other women involved with this guy as well. And I said, well, what do I do? I, I still would like to salvage my marriage. Hmm. He said, I don't wanna set you up for any failure or expectations you've had enough.

But if you have any chance in salvaging your marriage, it's gonna be that you love your wife the way Christ loves you. Wow. And if he'd have said the way Christ loves the church probably went over my head. Mm. That the way Christ loves you. Oh. And I thought, uh, I wrestled with that so much that it took the spotlight off of her and.

Put it on me and my people attempt to love her without conditions. Hmm. I decided I'm gonna love my wife and my children without conditions. Whoa. That, that's so strong. So somebody came home that night, I was waiting for about eight hours, uh, and I didn't hear from him. And so when he finally came home, uh, we talked a little bit and then he said, tonight when the girls are in bed, you and I are gonna talk.

I'm like, oh, okay. So whatever. Um, I was like nervous because I just knew he was gonna tell me that he is leaving. And so we stood in our little kitchen and, uh, he said to me, promise me one thing. Just promise me, hun, that you won't leave, uh, a note on the dresser in the middle of the night. Uh, but, but just tell me if you wanna go somewhere.

Uh, if I want you to be happy, and if you wanna go somewhere, just tell me and I'll help you pack your bags and we'll find a place for you. But if you're gonna go, then you have to take the girls with you because they need their mother. Hmm. And wow, okay, so y'all don't understand this, but that was like, you know, a little teeny little spark in my belly.

Like, oh my goodness, he believes in me. That's amazing. Grace. Girls need my need. Their crazy mother. I don't know. It was, it was the clincher for me. It was the beginning, and I should say, for me to believe that we could actually maybe, maybe we can stay together. Hmm. Wow. That is so strong. Now, uh, let me, let's pause for a second on your story and let's, um, let's go back to Jonas.

This is for you. If you could go back and counsel yourself. Back before she confessed, but when you knew in your gut there was something going on, you knew it. If you could go back and counsel yourself at that point, like there's couples out there right now where maybe one of the spouses does feel like that.

Like there's something, I can't put my finger on it, but there's something, and I, and I wish I knew what it was. How do you counsel people like that? What do you tell them? Well explore, you know, explore. I wish I'd have done more, uh, in exploring things. You know, I, in my counseling career, a number of times somebody would come to me and they'd say, I think my spouse is having an affair.

I'd say Get, get a private detective. Hunt this thing down, because if they are, you need to confront 'em. If they're not, you need to stop thinking about it. That's so good. Yeah. So, you know, there's been times when I've thought about doing that. 'cause I knew she would go on her motorcycle ride and didn't always know where she went.

And, you know, at the time I just didn't have the, the wherewithal to be that suspicious. But I'm street smart now. I would do it in heart. And I've always encouraged people to say, look, uh, if you have, if you have these feelings, seek 'em out. Because if, if, if they're true, you need to know it. If they're not true, you need to stop thinking.

Yes. And you know what, what I think about that, you know, there might be some spouses that would say, you know, I'm never gonna get a private detective because then I'm not trusting my spouse. And then the other spouse would think, oh, well you hired somebody to, you know, you're sitting here exploring and you're not really trusting me.

But you know, in reality, sometimes, uh, our suspicions come from our own insecurities and our spouse should understand that. Do everything in their power to put that security to security, to rest. And if that means, Hey, I'm gonna give you the passwords to my phone, which we tell spouses all that your passwords are not your passwords.

They're, they're yours together. There are no passwords to your phone, to your computer that your spouse doesn't have. Right? So even if that suspicion is born out of an insecurity, a healthy marriage, you know that that other spouse, that partner says, Hey, whatever it, whatever needs to happen in order for you to be, for this to, to calm down so that you can recognize that I am trustworthy.

Let's do it. Let's just do it. Right. And so the other part of that, Jason, is that, you know, for, from my, um, where I came from, the guilt and the shame, and I messed everything up, right? And so I knew, I didn't feel like he would ever trust me. You know, I mean, that was just kind of a given, right? How would he ever trust me again?

And, you know, but, but again, I wanna say as a follower of Christ, as a believer, you do have Holy Spirit within you to guide you in those times as well. He never leaves us. You know, it's, it's kind of crazy to think about it that way, but, but in our darkest times, for me, I know he never, at the time I wasn't sure of God, where are you?

But looking back, he never left me. And when I made that confession to Jonas, the Holy Spirit was faithful to me, said to me, don't go, this didn't even come from Jonas. I mean, he never said anything. Um, I, I told him that night when I, when we had our little talk and he said, take the girls with you if you go.

And I said, uh, I told him then that, um, I would, uh, never see, I'm not sure if I told you that then, but, but at one point I asked him, don't rub my past in my face. Now what a, a tall order that was for him. Um, in other words, I'm saying, I don't wanna talk about this again. Right. That's ridiculous. Yeah. But thats how broken we were.

But I went from that to understanding that. I needed to become trustworthy and Holy Spirit spoke to me clearly and said to me, don't go anywhere alone. Because I didn't, even though it was an abusive situation, the addictions that I found myself in during those years, it was horrible. And so I didn't trust myself.

And so I never went anywhere by myself, not even to go grocery shopping. Everything we did from that point on for, I don't know, a year or two for, for quite some time so that he could begin to trust me again. Hmm. And so that's where I was gonna ask you guys to go now is, so you built your marriage back. I mean, you've been married 55 years and you guys are a powerhouse couple.

How did you build it back, the practical things, and that you just gave us something so practical right there. You know, in that first year you didn't go anywhere alone. What, what else? How else did you do it? Forgiveness is a choice, but rebuilding trust. Can be a long process. Yeah. What you need to rebuild trust is those reassuring things where the spouse that broke trust, trust in the first place can be accountable and, uh, you know, just, just answer as to where you are and where you're going.

And I do remember at one point I picked up the phone and I thought she should be home. This was before cell phones. And I picked up the phone and she didn't answer, and I panicked. So I started driving over town, just a little town that we were in to see if I could find her. And I, I've seen her out the car wash.

She was minding her own business, washing the car, and I tried to make a U-turn and get out of there before she'd seen me. But she, she caught me and, uh, I think we talked about it later, but I decided then that I am not gonna be a detective. Mm. If this marriage is going to work, it's going to be because she wants to, wants it to work same as me.

And nothing I can do to manipulate her into that kind of relationship. It's gonna be a God thing. And that's why, uh, she already said it one time. You know, I, I say to people, we, God did a work of grace in both of us. That's why we're still one. She says a lot of fine things about me, but believe me, when it comes to loving my wife the way Christ loves me, that was the work of grace that started happening in my life.

And God did a work and both of us, or we could never be one And, you know, uh, I think we both did the hard work and the reward is we get to spend time with our children and grandchildren together. Hmm. So beautiful. I remember, um, in hearing your story, one of the things that was just so touching to me was what you did Jonas, after, um, you know, hearing about this and after the confession and after working through it, you decided to, to go get counseling yourself and then to, I think it was what was, what was the program that you went through?

Um, 'cause I know you wanted to then be, um, a help to other people that are going through the same things that you guys had gone through. Yeah. That took place at, at a Emerge ministry in Akron, Ohio. And Richard Dobbins, uh, was founder there and he also became our kind of personal couple counselor, uh, along with that.

But, you know, it was a three year correspondence course. I could do that easily and, uh, Just learned to be a pastoral counselor. And the tools that he helped, uh, that he taught, helped me personally in that journey as well. Wow. And then, so he would talk to me about what he's learning, uh, with, uh, with this correspondence course from Emerge Ministries.

And, and it was like, God put all of that in place so that we could, we began to understand our own behaviors, like psychol, psychologically what happened to us. Yeah. Like, what happened? How can this be? And so that really helped us as a couple to be able to just understand our behaviors and why, what, what actually happened.

He knew from day one that I was sexually abused. He, he mm-hmm. Didn't blame me for having an affair. He knew that I was sexually abused somehow. You knew that? Well, then, maybe not the first day, but I, I think that guy I called helped me to understand that, you know, he said, this is not, This is not, uh, an affair.

This is sexual abuse. It's, and, and, and it would, it would be. It would. Yeah. That's, it's spiritual. And it would be important to know, 'cause I, I know this in your story, Ann, it wasn't just you and other women, it was your sisters as well. Right. And our, and our little girl, which we found out when she Oh my.

And she was 25 years old. She told us, we didn't know that until she was 25. I did not know that. Yeah. Wow. God have mercy. You know, and during that time when everything fell apart, you know, I was scared to death that the whole world was gonna find this out. I mean, nobody knew me. So What, you know, what do you, this was long before Auntie Ann's ever, we never even thought about anything at that time.

But, you know, I was just, you know, when you expose yourself like that, you're, you're really scared that you know people are gonna confront you. People in the church or the neighborhood. I don't know. Mm-hmm. I was just a nervous wreck. So I told him one day, you know, I said, hun, I don't, I don't know what to do because I, I don't, I don't want to talk about this in front of people.

And he said, He said, hun, if anybody has any question, this was his support to me. He said, if anybody comes to you and wants to know anything, you just tell them that you'd be more than happy to talk about it, but only if Jonas is with me. Oh, I love that. The covering, the support, the, I mean, I knew immediately I was not alone in this, even though this was my fault.

Well, I mean the pastor's fault, but you know, I'm the one that brought the pain into his life. Mm-hmm. Immediately he covered me with his unconditional love and his never nagging me. And to this day he promised that he would not rub my past in my face. And I can't tell you to this day, all these share later, he has never one time said to me, why in the world were you?

What, why did you do that? Where did you go? How did you, what, what made you, you know, never blamed me, never. One time, another, uh, piece. Good advice I got from, uh, The counselor I called that night. He, he said, uh, keep yourself from asking detailed personal questions about what happened. He said, all, all that does is create videos that play in your head that will never stop.

Yep. That is so true, Tori. And I know, uh, of couples that, you know, they, they, they've had something like this happen and the one spouse wants to know every single microscopic detail. And those things were shared and it just, it wrecked them. And I want to pause for one second because I wanna mention two things.

The first is, um, that Jonas, you, you showed us whenever you did that u-turn to check on Anne when she was at the, when she was at the, uh, car wash. You said you weren't gonna play detective anymore. And that, that's something very important. You had said earlier, Hey, hire a detective. Get to the bottom of it.

But once you get to the bottom of it, then it's no more detective. It's now I'm choosing to trust and you're moving forward, right? So that it's really good stopping point. The second is that, uh, and, and what I love from your story specifically with you, Jonas, you instantly knew, uh, we're gonna get through this.

We're gonna work through this. I'm gonna rely on the power of the Holy Spirit. We're gonna, I'm gonna, you know, salvage the marriage. At the same time, I wanna learn how we, how to do it, and I wanna learn it in a way so that we can then help other couples. So instantly your mind went to whatever situation that I found myself in.

I now want to help other couples get through the same thing. And having that mindset has helped you guys so much because when you know that you're pouring into other people, it really keeps you on your a game, you know? And so I, and, and as Anne has told the story, and I've heard it, And I've never said it this from stage because I don't know how people will take it, but you know, our listeners know my sense of humor that when you talk this story, I find myself falling in love with Jonas myself.

But it's such a powerful story. I hear that. Oh yeah. Because everybody loves Jonas. Now you went through all of this stuff and we have about nine, 10 minutes left. Now let's get to the Auntie Ann story because God used Jonas to put Auntie Ann's on the map. 'cause Auntie Ann's, you know, it was a thing, you know, you had started your business, but yet something was missing.

So, Ann, take us through that real quick so people can see how God then used Jonas, the guy who loved you, like Christ loves him. God used him to put Auntie Ann on the map. You know, it, it's, so, the whole story is, is such a God intervened in so many ways, you know, for him to, uh, you know, first of all do, uh, studies psychology to emerge ministries like, wow.

Mm-hmm. That was something that God had ordained. And then the other thing that I just wanna mention here, Jason, is that, you know, as a couple, if you find yourself, or when, or if you are on this, you're, listen today, and you're in this situation as a couple, find something to do together. Like, oh yeah, I had nothing in common anymore.

Like, I, I didn't like him. I didn't wanna grow old with him. I, and you know why? Because I hated who I had become. You cannot give what you don't have so's if I don't like me, well, guess what? I'm not gonna like anybody else. You, you'll love your naked yourself, right? I mean, that's a Jesus principle right there.

That's good. So good. So when, when all of this began to take place, I, I had nothing to give. But, uh, we rode motorcycles a lot during, uh, Soon after that or Right, right. During that time, I had my own cycle and he had his cycle. It was so, we had something that we enjoyed doing together. Mm-hmm. And I always say, say this, it's almost funny, but it is really true.

I loved getting on the bike and riding with him. Uh, but he was on his cycle, so that meant we didn't have to talk a lot. But we both loved biking, motorcycle riding. So, and that kind of like motorcycle riding and music. We loved, uh, Christian inspirational gospel music. And those two things were in our lives as we were beginning this journey toward wholeness and healing.

So it's really important. Find something that you can give good advice. You know, we would go have coffee and sit there and drink our coffee and have a cup of soup or something. Couldn't afford anything. Back in the day we had no money. But we there, I guess, and talk about the kids and the weather, I don't know.

But find it's really important. Find something that you can enjoy doing together and, and you know, it's okay not to be able to say everything you wanna say in time. Give yourself time, you know, for a number of years I couldn't say what I wanted to say to Jonas after my secret was revealed, but in time, because he listened to me, because he, I trusted him because he never accused me.

That like opened up the, my heart wide open to Jones again. You know, uh, you know, when you feel that guilty and not bad, any little thing will break you down. And I knew that if he would accuse me in my mind, I had already decided I'm gonna walk away. I'm leaving him. I can't take. Any more guilt than what I already have in my heart.

So anyway, I kind of got off track. That's so good. No, that's good advice. So good. But then when did you start the pretzel pretzel business? Because he, he, uh, understood psychology and we both felt called to the ministry of counseling other couples. And we didn't have that much experience, you know, as far as psychology.

But we had a lot of experience that we wanted to share. And we began to do that as a, just like anybody that would come to us Sure. Come, we'll talk to you. And we did that for a little while. And then, um, uh, he completed his course and he became a pastoral counselor and, uh, making no money. 'cause every, everybody that came and he was doing counseling every day nearly.

And he was crazy busy doing co Of course, anytime it's free, you're gonna, you know, whatever. Of course. But I knew I had to, I had to go to work to make the dough, to pay the bills. I knew that and I wanted to do that because Jonas saved my life. Hmm. Had no idea, no plans, except we got into a store that was doing salt pretzels.

I didn't plan salt pretzels. I, we didn't plan anything. I didn't want him to make enough money so that he could do what he was doing. That's good. So's Our purpose was born and then God provided financially for us through auntie and salt pretzels and, um, we started with one store just because, again, I wanted to support Jonah financially, and we wanted to give, and immediately we tied off of the growth that we made.

The very first week we, we know that we spending freely have received, freely give. What did, what did God give to you? What, what did give you? Well just start giving it away freely. We have received, I received so much from Jonas. I just wanted to give, I just wanted to give it away to others. Mm-hmm. We got into this business and we were able to give financially and I was able to support Jonas and then next year, now, let me interrupt you for a second, Anne, because when you first started, the pretzel was good, but not that good.

Right. I mean, I was gonna take it off the menu. We were in it about six or seven weeks or so. I'm fiddling, I'm, I'm trying to figure out how to make a really good pretzel and nothing is working. They're coming out white, skinny, and bland, no taste. Mm-hmm. And he came to market one Friday morning with me and, and I said, I'm taking the pretzels off the menu.

I'm so sick of trying to figure out what's wrong with the pretzel. And, you know, he just kinda looked at me and said, well, before you do that, let me try something that my mom taught me in the kitchen when I was a mish boy. I'm like, well, okay, whatever. I'm just totally done. Right? And he told me what he, what he thought would work.

And I'm like, whatever. No, okay, just go to the store and get it. We'll see what happens. And uh, he took his hat and apron off, walked to the store, came back with extra ingredients. We already had our, our pretzel dough mix, and we just added a certain amount into the pretzel dough. And voila, auntie Ann's pretzels.

They were born instantly just like that. And as we Wow. Hold and then baked the product, it was like we kept opening the oven door. Like what is, wow. I mean, they looked like, like an anti and pretzel. Yes. But, but before that, honestly, and when the pretzels came out, uh, we stood there. Him and I, like the pretzel is like significant.

It's a spiritual story behind it. Mm-hmm. The pretzel, the three holes in the pretzels, signifi by the father, son, and holy spirit. That's right. And the salt and the pretzel is you the salt of the earth. Mm-hmm. And I don't know, as we stood there and broke bread together in that moment, it was like, this is a miracle.

We knew it was a miracle. The product, our lives, it was just the whole thing was miraculous, but we had no idea. God was taking us at that time, we had no plan to build any more stores, but that year we built two more stores. Yeah. And, and so, so as we tasted this product, then he said to me, I said, oh, I can't wait to tell people.

He said, don't tell anyone. Let's see what the customers say to us. I'm like, yeah. Oh, okay. Well, the very first customer that we had bought a pretzel, and we stood there and we watched this guy walk away, like usual, just, you know, you buy something and you walk off. And he stopped about maybe 10 feet from our store.

And he, after he took a bite, he took a bite and he looked at the pretzel and he looked back at the store, looked at his pretzel, came walking back us. He said, what is this? It was always a soft pretzel. He said, well, I have never had a soft pretzel like this. This pretzel tastes better than cake. Is what he said.

Wow. Wow. It's like, it was, he was exasperated. He said, this pretzel tastes better than, than, than Coke, than cake. He said like, oh, okay. I guess so. I don't know. From that point on, you know, less than six months later, we started our second location, but that was in February. In July of that year, uh, we had, we sold 90 batches of pretzels, and in every batch there are 45 pretzels.

Wow. In one day. In one day. That's over 40 of pretzels. 55, 50 5 cents. At that time, you know, Tori and I last, last night, we were at the mall, walked past Auntie Ann's pretzel place always smells so amazing. And I knew that we were gonna be interviewing you guys, uh, today and, and I'm walking past her and I'm like, you know what?

Very few people know the story that ha took place before Auntie Anns became a thing, and how the Lord used a man who showed you the love of Christ in a relationship. And Ann, the whole genesis of Auntie Anns was because you wanted your husband to be in a position to where he could counsel other couples so they didn't fall into the same trap that you guys fell into.

That right there is a story for the ages. It really is. And I'm just, I'm picturing, you know, I'm picturing this and I'm seeing Jonas on the phone with this counselor and he's saying, you need to love Anne, like God loves you. And he took eight hours to process that and to, to, and, and comes home and just makes a decision that he's gonna love you.

Like God loves him and this is what's happened now. It's just, it could, it, it brings me to tears. May, may I tell you a little bit more about that. He never told me that for. He never told me that for probably two years. I, I didn't know this part of his story, you know? And my sister, we were in touch all the time that my sisters and I, like, they would call and say, how are you doing?

Blah, blah, blah. We'd tell each other how we're doing after we got outta this evil world that we were in. And one day, so back the day, we had phones on our walls with a long cords extension cord. You, y'all remember that? Yeah. And so I'm on the phone, my sister calls me, I go into the hallway with my phone and she asked me the question.

She said to me, Anne, how's Jonas doing? And I said, and he heard me. And I said to her, you know, I don't know what's happening to Jonas, but what I can tell you, what I feel from him is I feel connected. I feel like the spirit of God. There's something happening inside of Jonas. I just wanna be with him. And he heard me say, wow.

So that, that was the beginning of, of the miracle that I, he heard me. Say that. Mm-hmm. And up until that point, I, I, you weren't sure? I had no idea whether my message was getting through or not, but when I heard that, I was encouraged Wow. That he was loving me, like Christ loves him. Never whined about it, never complained about, never said, I mean, intimately, sexually, physically, emotionally, we were still, you know, struggling big time.

Mm-hmm. But the, the, the, the moments that God gives you to just like, keep going, keep going. Yeah. Hanging in there is a hard job sometimes. That was two and a half years after she told me what was going on. Wow. Wow. But you hung in there that, oh gosh, this is great. You know, I, I see Auntie Ann's pretzels, but there's something inside of my subconscious that says, those are actually jonas's jn pretzels.

You know, the Jonas j pretzels isn't quite as endearing as Auntie Ann's pretzels. Okay. What? I'm saying that the name, of course. But you know your story and you say, you know, without Jonas loving you like that, and without you coming out and, and being obedient and, and revealing your secret, there would be no anti ants, pretzels.

And can you imagine a world with no anti ants, pretzels? No. Wow. Of course not. That goes back to the power of confession. Set yourself free. Tell somebody about your secret. Please tell somebody. It may not be your husband. It may not be your pastor. Hopefully, I don't know. But find someone that you trust.

Yeah. And stop the wild ride that you're on, the secret vibe that you're on. Go into a whole other world that God has for us. 'cause today we love each other. We, we don't argue, we don't fuss. We just enjoy being together. And that's the work of grace that God truly put together. Amen. Praise God. That is so great.

So beautiful. Thank you guys so much for sharing this story with us. Oh my goodness. I'm just, I'm so encouraged. I want my kids to listen to it. I want everyone, all my friends to listen to it. Yeah. It was just incredible. And, and as I mentioned earlier, we always end with sharing something about what we're cooking that week, this week or you know, always around food.

We're, and I've tried for three years to get this secret recipe that Jonas gave you, but I don't think you're allowed to give that to me. I wanna, yeah. Yeah. So I wanna point everyone to your new cookbook, come to the table. It is absolutely a work of art. It is ab so beautiful. Um, how many recipes are in this book?

I mean, it is a thick book. I wanna tell, I wanna say this about 110 or so. And then of course, as you look through all the stories about my, my history on the Amish farm and, and my cooking days and family life, I love that you shared your story, that it, and so many great pictures. Um, so you guys need to check out this book for some amazing recipes.

It, it's soups and salads, breads and biscuits, sauces, dressing, side dishes, Maine dishes, dessert basics, pies from scratch, cakes, sweet treats, just so many great Amish recipe. Are they mostly from your, from your Amish days? Mo Most of them. There were a few friends that I had that we added some, you know, great, uh, recipes, but most of them from my my days.

Yes. That's so fun. So you guys check out her book, come to the table for some amazing recipes, and if you're like Lundy, you might wake up the next morning in the kitchen. Smells amazing. It might, hey, it might not smell as good as Auntie Ann's pretzels, but you know, it'll be good nonetheless. So listen, you guys, both of you, Jonas, and we love you.

We're so thankful that you poured into our listeners today. Uh, Tori and I have done a lot of podcasts. This is hands down, the best one we've ever, ever done. And you know what? You're gonna make us insta famous. That's, that was the whole goal here. No, you, you're gonna help so many people just by sharing your stories.

So thank you both. Y'all are awesome. Thanks for having us. Yes, what an honor to be on your show. Absolutely love. Love you deeply. We love you guys. Love you too. Alright, for those of you who are one of our regular listeners, just, uh, we'll put a link to Anne's book. In our description. But, um, don't forget to rate, review, subscribe, and if you haven't taken our free five day marriage challenge, go to beauty and battle.com.

But in the meantime, listen to this podcast several times. Save it and share it with your friends. It'll, it'll help a lot of people, so God bless you.