One of the best things we've done in our marriage that's helped us understand each other better is taking the Enneagram. Knowing our enneagram types has given us new eyes to see each other and understand the core motivations that fuel our behavior.
And, as many of you may not know, Tori is a certified Enneagram coach. As such, she has a deep understanding into this powerful tool and how it can help you and your spouse get along better!
So in this episode, we dive into the nine enneagram types and talk about how we can relate to each other regardless of where we are on the scale.
Oh, and Tori's jokes are pretty epic in this one. Just being honest.
* Learn more about Jason and Tori HERE
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DISCOVERING MOTIVATIONS IN MARRIAGE
With Jason & Tori Benham
Okay. So I'm excited about this episode because I get to talk less. And my girlfriend slash Tory gets to talk more because, you know, I don't know that a lot of people know, but you have some certifications behind your name, their tour. She's got some certifications there. She's certified emotional intelligence coach.
You know what? We need to do a podcast on emotional. Yeah, we should. I love talking emotional intelligence and she's also a certified Enneagram coat. So when we talk about discovering motivations in marriage, we're not just talking about personality tests and all that kind of stuff. We're talking about legit.
What makes you tick? because it's given us language to understand each other better. Right, right. And it's kind of been fun to dig into this together cause it's like, we're learning a whole different side of each other that we didn't know, like when you're dating, you're kind of, you're trying to get to know each other and then this kind of takes it to a different level.
You know, it's, it's just like, oh, I had is totally how I think. And that's like, I can totally see how us, us misunderstanding each other, because we're just think different, you know, like just helping each other. To understand each other. Yeah. Has been a really fun thing for our marriage. Right? Yeah.
Discovering one another, the Enneagram is so popular right now that there's a part of me. That's like, Ooh, I'm not really into the Enneagram. I'm not into all that stuff. You know, it's just stupid and all, but then I took it. I took it several times. Cause you need to take it a couple of times and there's plenty of.
Assessments out there. what are some of the, yeah, you can, And this has been really helpful for us and, oh my gosh. Has it ever. But should we talk about that now? Or should we wait until after you give me a joke? Hoping you might laugh at do a couple of pickup lines, pickup lines. Oh, I like that. Okay. Knock me out. I'd say, God bless you, but it looks like he already has, oh gosh, that's a good, yeah.
I didn't like that one. Are you a charger? Because I'm dying without you. Oh, okay. Like a phone charger. Got it. The minute you said charger. I thought for some reason I thought. The Ram, you know, like the chart, the actual animal really? That's weird. Why would, I don't know. I wouldn't think of a football player.
Yeah. I don't know. It is weird. You have another one for me. Um, okay. Something's wrong with my eyes because I can't take them off of you. Okay. I like that one. So one and three. Okay. Solid. Nice. Okay. So we, should we get back to talking about motivations in marriage and how. It has been very helpful to us.
It has been really helpful. And I think get a free one through your Enneagram coach.com. That's who I was certified through through the lens of the gospel, which is really cool. Yeah. Beth McCord. She she's really good. She's probably the best for any gram from a gospel perspective, but you can get a free, free assessment.
Yep. So you can go to it's like assessment dot your Enneagram coach.com for that free one. Or, I mean, you can just Google your Enneagram coach assessment and it'll bring you right there. And then there's a $12 one that you can do through any Agram institute.com. Yeah. And honestly, I, I think that was really helpful.
Yeah. And I it's really helpful to do both because you can very easily mistype. And I feel like if you do both of those, it kind of, it really helps if you're kind of in between two different ones and you're trying to figure out what your one. Well, and, and Tori, like I said, she's certified Enneagram coach, but we have a guy who's kind of like an Enneagram mentor to us named Keanu.
True. He, yo, he's got true two step, huh? That's not good, true strategy.info. And he's got some really good stuff and maybe one day we'll have him on the podcast so he could share with us even more. He is brilliant. He helped us. Stinky fish between two different ones. And I thought I was helped us a lot.
I think you were between two and I was between two and he really sat with us and helped us to figure out which one we were. But the thing that I like is that after I took it, several times and, and you took it and we discovered, out of the nine different types. And it's they call it types, even though it's not necessarily personality type, it just helps you understand your core motivation.
I'm a one and Tori's a nine, right. And I'm telling you what that gave me so much insight into her. And I'll share with you a couple stories about how that helped us, but first I think what would be good tore those, give us a quick overview of the nine types. So I think what's, what's important to understand.
With the Enneagram is that we are all nine types. Right? We're all, we're all motivated by all nine of these types. Okay. But B one is going to be more dominant than the other and the best way I think about this is your right or left hand dominant. Right? Can you use, what are you left or right-hand dominant, right?
You're right. Hand dominant. Can you use your left? C do you use it all the time? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's something that you use, you use all of these motivations all the time. Yeah. But because you're right hand dominant, you use your right hand predominantly you use it a lot more than you use your left hand.
You're going to have one. So you have one that is, it's your more dominant way of thinking. And because. Anything that's dominant. We just tend to overuse. Right. We tend to overuse one motivation and it can be detrimental to us, or it can immune. It can really make us who we are or it can break us. Yeah. And so I think it's, it's super helpful to understand which one is dominant and because really it revealed.
What, what your more attempted with sin? Yeah. Like what, which sins, you're more tempted by, you know, like, it's not like, I think sometimes it's misused because it's almost something you've confined your identity in. Like, I am in nine or eight. It's like, shut up. Jesus never said that. It's like, whatever one.
Like whichever one it is, you've got major issues. Like we all, like whichever one is more dominant because it can become overused and not managed. It can be our greatest strengths can be our greatest weaknesses. And so it's really, I think it's just really helpful to understand which one is more dominant so that you can manage and then you do not, identify by it.
You do not surrender to it. So it's like, oh, well, so for obviously I'm I on the Enneagram have scored myself as a one, right. On all the tests I take. I'm a one, which is kind of like a perfectionist, I don't know you're motivated, right? It's a, it's a particular focus of attention that drives you and motivates you.
It's this particular way that you you're most motivated by just doing what is the right thing? That's a, that's what a one is. And so, but, but I don't, I don't sit there and say, well, because I'm a one. I'm going to allow myself to act in certain ways that is not becoming to someone who's like a four. Well, I'm a one you're a four and we're just going to have to live with it.
No, it's like, I do know that my core motivation is more of a I'm going to do what's right, because it's right. Because I want to, that's a one, who's the opposite of. Probably like a seven, I would say what's a seven. Well we can get into all of them. Let's let's do that real quick. Cause they don't want to go into a story.
So let's go through each one. And before I say that, I think this is a really good way of putting it. This is Beatrice Chestnut said this, the Enneagram does not put you into a box, but rather helps you out of a box you put yourself into. So it's like once you realize, oh, I'm so laser focused on this one thing that I want, like for you, it might be like, no, it's the right thing to do.
And you will not bend or flex because you have decided it's the right thing to do. Yeah. But there are times where you do have to bend and flex, right. And that's when you have to get outside of the box, you've put yourself into. Okay, this is the right thing to do, but this isn't the right time to do it.
Right. So it's, it's, it gets you out of a box. You've put yourself for me. It's like, I want peace at all costs. Right? Well, sometimes I need to face conflict to get peace. So it's like that whole paradox we talked about last episode is that, you know, so for me, it's like, all I'm focusing on right now is keeping people.
And it's actually keeping me from peace. Do you know what I mean? Because I've put my I'm like, no, no, I don't. I got to avoid conflict. I have to make everybody happy. As long as everybody's happy, I will be happy. What is their core motivation piece? And that can become almost an obsessive drive for me.
Yeah. And it doesn't need to be that way. Right. Okay. So that leads me perfectly into, I just want to share one quick story before you get into the rest of the. So I was going to let you share all the nine first, but then you, you already said, so Tory's a nine, I'm a one when it comes to the Enneagram. So I'm driven by this, this thing in me.
That's like, I mean, if I walk, it's weird. If, if I walk past, can on the ground trashcan in my neighborhood, no, just a regular can on the ground, in the Navy. And it's just laying on the ground. There's something in me says, pick it up, pick it up, pick it up, pick it up, pick it up, pick it up, pick it up.
And if I don't, I, I literally have to say it's okay. I can't pick it up right now. It's okay. Jason, calm down. Like that's what's going on. And our entire marriage, we go for a lot of walks and eats just like collecting trash. And then this was like a week or no, I'm sorry. It was like a couple months ago.
And we had been really talking about the Instagram and how we put ourselves in boxes. You know, for me as a peacemaker, it's like, okay, Jason wants to pick up trash. So I'm just going to pick up trash with him, you know? Cause that's what, that's what keeps him happy. And so we, there was like a storm in this guy's trashcan was completely tipped over and we were taking a walk and it was disgusting.
There was like nastiness everywhere. And Jason's like, oh, well you got to pick this thing up. And we had just started our walk. Wait a minute, babe. Okay. We can come back and get this thing, but can we finish this walk without nasty hands touching all this disgusting people's trash. And then on our way back, we can pick this thing up, but it was like, but that was because we had, like, we understand each other.
And you know that and you're like, oh yeah, let's, that's totally cool. Let's do that. But you know, just understand me, understanding me and like, no, I'm not going to stink and touch this nasty trash just to keep him happy. Like I can speak up and say, wait, can we do this after our walk? You know, let's see.
So just this morning, Tori and I were talking about when we wanted to work out, if we wanted to work out in the morning or if we wanted to work out in the afternoon and we knew we had to do this podcast today. I was talking to Tory. I said, well, which one do you want to do? She's like, I don't care.
Which one do you want to do? And I said, well, we were talking about whether we were a good workout first, first or, or later. And so, Tori just sat there and she's like, well, you just tell me what to do. And I knew in that moment, I was like, she's operating out of that nine NUS in her that just wants peace.
Like whatever would be peaceful to her. Is what she wants and what that means for her is let Jason get what he wants, let him do at the time he wants. And then I'll just wrap around what he wants. Right. And so then I told her, I said, no, I'm not going to, because I know, I know that core motivation and her just to keep the peace.
I said, no, I'm not going to pick it. You have to pick it. And so she picked it and we ended up working out in the afternoon and it was great. Yeah. He's kind of like coaching me through being okay with desire. Yeah. Like, no, you know what, this is what I want. And that's okay that I can make a decision and Tory until, until she did take the Enneagram and really started studying it.
And then it became a coach in it. She really didn't know. That that was a core motivation of hers. All she knew is that she never put herself out there. If somebody said, what do y'all want to eat? She would never tell you she was not the person that would tell you. And therefore she was always doing what everybody else wanted.
But the problem is, is when you, when you operate out of that and you don't recognize it, you lose yourself and you no longer know who you are. And I'll give you one quick story and then tour. I want you to dive into these. I w I do a live stream, right now it's every Thursday morning at 8:00 AM on at Benam brothers, social media, and I do a live stream.
We talk about living among lions, how to thrive like Daniel in today's Babylon. So my brother talks culture. We hit all the politically incorrect stuff. And we talked to you about what God's word says about it, and then we do some really good in-depth Bible study. So, I'm I'm one morning, probably several months ago, I walked out of the house and tour.
Say goodbye. And I said, Hey honey, I'm, I've got the livestream. I've got the study that I'm going to be doing this morning. I think you're really gonna like it once you tune in. And she goes, okay. And so she, ends up tuning in and I came home probably one or two o'clock in the afternoon and she was agitated and I didn't know why she was agitated.
And so. She, she was just busy and was getting all sorts of stuff down. We didn't get a chance to talk in a couple hours later, we went for a walk around the block and I was like, you seem a little agitated. So did I do something? And she's like, no, you didn't do anything. But when you told me you wanted me to listen to your live stream, I had a class that I was taking and I had a lot of stuff that I had to catch up on and I paused all of that.
So I could listen to your life. And now I'm behind, I'm behind in my schoolwork, you know, for, and I think you were studying to be, I forget what you were studying for, but, and so, but, and, and I realized that at that moment, that Tory's nine minus that, that, that nine in you that's like peace. Like you had this plan for getting all your schoolwork done that day.
And when I said, would you listen to. Livestream. You didn't want to say to me, no, I can't because I've got some stuff I got to do and I can't listen to you because you didn't want that to be any type of conflict. You just want peace of what you did was you died to your schedule. You wrapped your schedule around my schedule, and because of that, you were behind in your schoolwork and therefore you were frustrated at me that w when that did I give up, I gave up my own piece.
Like the very thing that I think I'm getting. Bye, you know, saying, okay, yes, I'll do that for you. I'll do whatever everybody wants. Okay. I can do that. And then I'm mad. Yeah. Because it's not, you know, now there's all this conflict because I didn't say anything and I never knew this stuff. So when we went through that and I saw that Tori, she feels like she should do what everybody else wants to do and not her own.
But yet it really did Rob her of peace. And then I ended up and then I end up becoming mad. It's like, yeah, it was, it's very interesting. And, and it happens with our kids a lot too. Like if they ask me something that I have to say no to, yeah. I, it makes me mad. And I never realized what it was, but it's like, I want to keep peace.
Now you just put me in the way of my weakness, where I am not going to keep the peace. Like you're going to be mad at me and I don't like conflict. So now I'm mad at you. You know, it's just this crazy. Go ahead. I'm sorry. It's just this crazy cycle that we put ourselves in when we don't understand ourselves.
Now that I know this about Tori and she knows this about. And I know my own Enneagram type and I know her Enneagram type. It really has helped, like I would say in, in 2021, understanding each other's Enneagrams has probably been the one thing that's helped us the most in our marriage. Obviously, you know, for the previous 20 years of marriage, we learn so much about beauty and battle and fighting and marriage.
Waging war and the spirit and all of those things, but every year we're learning something new and I would say 20, 21 was probably that, and it was so helpful to us. So I think it's been really great conversation starters for us too. Like it really gave us some topics to talk about that were deep. And, you know, we were going deep into each other's, you know, past, and it was just fun.
It was, it was really fun to get to know you on a, at a different level. And I don't think. Would have without the Enneagram, because it put language to some things that we just had never even heard about. Right. Right. So tell us, tell us the nine real quick. Okay. So the Enneagram, the Enneagram has been around for over a hundred.
Oh, I don't know if you knew that, but it, it originally been really popular in the last, like what, 10 years actually, I think they said, in the 1960s is when psychologists started to use it. A lot of psychologists started to use it and then they would, you know, document everything with their, their patients.
And then they would collaborate all these psychologists collaborated and they realized, wow, this frame. It's actually really, really good. Yeah. And, and it's actually, it actually makes a lot of sense to a lot of people and it puts in, and there's no doubt that, I mean, Tori and I subscribed to this line of thinking, there's no doubt that maybe some wackos have done stuff with it and used it bad or maybe in the, in the origins and all that kind of stuff.
Whatever. It's the same thing. When I look at my apple. You know, I know that that logo on the back with the apple that has the bite out of it. I know that the original logo, because I did the research on it, it was all about a thirst for knowledge. And they went all the way back to the garden. And they're essentially saying you should still take a bite in spite of the fact that it was sinful, it was wrong.
It's like, you should still take a bite, but I use their tool, which is the iPhone to grow my relationship with the Lord, my relationship with other people. So I look at the Enneagram the same. That's how I look at it too. It's like, there's these group of psychologists have been using it for over a hundred years and collaborating their information together.
Right. And so I think we can learn from that. I think we can learn from hundreds of psychologists who have used this system and documented it for, to understand each other. I mean, that's what they, that's what psychologists do. They study human behavior and they have found that there are nine core motivations.
We all have. We have all of them. And, remember one is more dominant than the others, and it tends to be almost an obsessive way of doing things, right. That's how you can look at it. It kind of can become an obsessive way of, of doing these because you're motivated mostly most dumped predominantly in this one area.
So we'll start with the one. This is what we mentioned. Jason is the perfectionist, the moral perfectionist, and a one is motivated by a desire to live the right way and to improve the. So, because I'm a one, everybody else should be a one. And if they're not a one you're wrong. Yeah. Yes. If, if you're, you know, he, Jason is highly motivated to do the right thing.
It's very hard for him to understand why you would not want to, if you know, it's the right thing to do. Why in the world would you not do it? If you know that an Oreo is going to give you cancer, if you eat it, why the heck would you eat an Oreo? Like it's just black and white to him. Okay. And then, I was going to say something about the one about the one.
Yeah. Well, one thing about being a one though, is I do wake up with a deficit most mornings, which means that I'm naturally thinking about the things that aren't right. Rather than the things that are right. Because there is a little bit of that perfection. Well, we were made in the image of God, but we're not God.
And so for a one it feels, yeah, it feels like. I, you know, I was made to do the right thing. And you were, you were, you work because you are one with God, but you are not God and you cannot do everything. Perfect. And so there's this constant, feeling of being at a deficit for a one. Then a two is the helper.
Two is motivated by a need to be loved in needed. Twos are one of my favorite people. They're just the sweetest, servant, hearted people. They really are. They love to love on you. Like they see a need, meet a need. That's what, there's a friend that Tori's got, who her name is. And she's a two. Oh, she's the best.
Yes, she's awesome. She's awesome. And I accidentally called her Amy one day when we first knew him and I introduced her to my friends with Amy. And so, yeah, I never got to live that down. So two was just highly motivated to meet a need. Yeah. They're very servant hearted and they want you to remember. Yes, and they want to be thanked and there's all we'll we'll get into.
We can get into each of these. I mean, we could talk about each one first, so we're just do high level. Number three is the achiever or the performer. They are a number three is motivated by a need to be successful. And appear as successful. They really want to look successful. It's important to them. Love them some social media.
Yes. They would be, they would tend to, yeah, you're right,
because it really matters to them. What people think. For his motive, oh, the fours, the romantic or the industry. They are motivated by a need to be understood and to experience their feelings. Oh, now these are the people that are really creative, but they're really great at answering all of your questions about.
But they're not going to ask you questions about you because they don't care. No, that's not true. That's the one in you. Oh my goodness. Calm it down. Punch. No, the fours are amazing people too. They're very compassionate, introspective, creative, supportive, and very unique. And they like to be very unique.
Like they do not want to be like the rest of the world. They don't want to fit in. They want to stand out and they're, they, they have a very. Need to be understood. And so you, when you're talking to a four, they want to go deep. They want to talk about, they want to, they're not afraid to feel sadness.
They're not afraid to feel, feel anything like they're, they're in touch with their feelings and they're okay with it. About a five, so the five is the thinker or the investigator they're motivated by a need to gain knowledge and consent.
Energy. They just tend to feel like they don't have enough. Like they just don't have enough energy they're thinkers, they're con you know, constantly aware of their energy and they feel like people can take advantage of that. And so they're very protective of that because they really enjoy time things.
About things. Okay. How about a six? Six is the loyalist they're motivated by a need to have security and to feel supported by others. So the six, they, they tend to kind of operate out of fear a lot because everything kind of goes through this grid of fear. And so they're, they, they, they are really looking for security and people.
And, they're looking for support because there's, they have some really deep rooted fears about a seven, seven is the. They are motivated by a need to be happy and plan stimulating experiences. So, our son, Jake is the enthusiastic, he's just, he has major FOMO, fear of missing out. Like they're very futuristic, always looking to the future.
What can we do next? It also makes him not want to make commitments because if he makes a commitment that he couldn't make this out of something else, Just, but I mean the most fun person ever is Jake. Nate is the challenger motivated by a need to be strong. The eight, they kind of get the eight kind of gets a bad rap sometimes because they're the challenger, right.
They're bulldozers. But can be, they can be, but they're actually there. They actually have very good hearts. Like they really they're, very justice minded and. They can see the injustices of the world and they want to make them right. And they will make them right, because they will move toward they'll bulldoze, you know, over those, those things that get in the way of those people who are being unjustly treated finally the nine and then the nine is the peacemaker.
Motivated by a need to keep peace and merge with others. Yeah. We've talked, we've talked about that because we've used myself as an example, so yeah, so those are the different types. And if you want to go take that test and I think it would be really helpful for you to understand you and your spouse type, but not only.
Your type. I would encourage anybody who wants to learn about the Enneagram to learn each type, because. In relationships, it's really important. And the other, the thing is, is that like, for me, I'm a nine, but in stress I go towards the, , a six, I act very much like a six. So it's important for me to understand confusing.
It can be very, it can be confusing, but it's been super helpful to see that, you know, for you as a one, when you're stressed, you move towards a four. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so. To learn all of the types. I think in Yule and as a nine, I feel like I'm all of them. That's a very common characteristic of a night.
It's like, I've, I, I, yeah, I can very much relate to each of them because. you know, as a nine, you, you can, you can kind of relate to each and every type. And that's why, you, you have the ability to keep the peace because you think you understand everybody. Right? So anyways, I would definitely encourage you to learn each of the types.
We it's been really helpful even with our kids to understand. You know, how they think and how they're motivated and, and then also how they deal with conflict. And that's something that I think we're going to talk about in the next episode. It's next episode. Yes. How to deal with, I don't know what we're talking about in the next episode, so let's not do the next episode, but I do want to do one thing as we wrap this up.
Discovering motivations and marriage is hugely important, especially when we can use a great tool like folks 200 years ago, didn't have, or they weren't able to use. Now. All of a sudden we have this tool that's really helpful to us. I want to end with a, would you rather, all right, let's do it. Do you have one for me?
Would you rather.
Okay. Would you rather lick the dirty cafeteria floor or stick your face in the toilet for a minute? I stinking goodness. Lick that, stick my face in it, like, okay. So there's the toilet like use, does it say it, it says in the toilet for a minute or dirty cafeteria? I'm not sure that I could hold my breath for a minute.
In a minute, man. Definitely don't think so either. So I'm probably going to look like the floor. Cause I think that there's the seven, seven second roll. So if it's down on the floor, it's been there for longer than seven.
Okay, love it. Okay, Tara, you did a great job. I love this. I want to talk more about motivations, Enneagram or whatever at some point maybe, maybe next episode, maybe not, but it's been fun hanging out with you guys. Don't forget to rate, review, leave us any comments that you've got on our podcast. Anything else you want to hear?
We want to hear from. So, thanks so much for hanging out with us and we'll see you next time on beauty and battle.